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mkr
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« #30 : November 13, 2012, 07:45:29 AM »

Mike Cain took the words out of my mouth :-)

Change can be hard for many and I understand that.  I do know we have these things called "power lines/poles" all over town and I am sure that many complained back then when they went up, but now we don't even notice.

Cell Site towers is another one.  People want service but they don't want a tower anywhere that can be seen.  This too is getting better as people have become ok with a tower peaking off a mountain or where ever it may be to gain access.

Diversity is key for our energy resources and Georgia Mtn has some serious wind up there. I am looking forward to setting up a visit with them once the windmills are all up and running.


"Life is too short, so love the one you got!"
Norton
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« #31 : November 13, 2012, 09:48:51 AM »

If the government would open up more for oil on our domestic soil we wouldn't have to depend on those countries for our energy.

US oil production has been rising since 2008 and is now higher than at any time in the last 10 years.
http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?country=us&product=oil&graph=production
You may have noticed there's lot's of talk these days about the US becoming the largest producer in the world by 2020.

Net imports of oil have been decreasing since 2005
http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/foreign_oil_dependence.cfm


Natural gas is the other energy source we need to open up to.

US natural gas production is higher than it has ever been in history.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9050us2a.htm


Solar hasn't made any progress since the 60's.

The first solar panels from the late 1950ís cost about $300 per watt.  During the 1970ís the price dropped from about $100/W to about $20/W.  Today itís about $1/W.  In other words, the price has declined about 99% since the 60ís.
http://gosolargreenny.com/history.html
gasman353
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« #32 : November 13, 2012, 10:09:49 AM »

Edited due to guest posting
« : November 17, 2012, 11:08:59 AM Henry »
Loctavious
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« #33 : November 13, 2012, 12:28:08 PM »

you said it yourself - oil drives our economy... and where is our economy?  where is the world economy?

      Oil alone can't be blamed - a consumer/consumption based society and thus economy is the a major culprit.  As Oil will run out, so will many other resources..... it's not hard math to see that with the world population growing, and those new millions every year needing a piece of what everyone else has - resource consumption will increases as well.  We already have been consuming more wood than we can replenish over the last 200 years. 
      Call me an ultra-futurist if you want, but we need more than a 'new energy source' to cure our ils as a species.  We need a moral and psychological wake-up call on a global scale.  where do we really want to be in 50 years and what current cultural and societal behaviors will help us/ hinder us from getting there?  What is the road there?  What do we, as a species, truly value ... what is truly important at the end of the day to us?  Is it being able to watch the Voice?  Survivor?  The Amazing Race?  Reality shows?  watching others live their lives from the comfort of our couches?  I'm stuck in the rut too - as it's what's bred into our culture these days.  and where will it lead? 

"Conservatives see any progress outside of what they approve of as the 'liberal agenda'.  Apparently no one told them they and what they think aren't any better than the rest of us"

"A closed mind is more dangerous than an ignorant one"
gasman353
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« #34 : November 13, 2012, 01:21:04 PM »

Edited due to guest posting
« : November 17, 2012, 11:09:17 AM Henry »
Trekr
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« #35 : November 13, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »

One could make the case that all the ski trials that are carved into the mountainsides are ugly. The people that do the work at the ski areas make slightly more than minimum wage the the owners wax rich.
Norton
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« #36 : November 14, 2012, 08:30:10 AM »

Thank you for the statistics, the question is, how does it help me? I'm still paying close to $4.00 a gallon to drive my car and over $3.50 a gallon to heat my home. Solar technology is still the same, it needs sun, where is that gonna come from in Vermont in the winter? Make a windmill and solar panels that I can afford and that will keep my house and family warm I will buy into it. As far as natural gas goes, I know production is up, I was saying lets utilize it more to power vehicles. Replace diesel or gas with natural gas.

I don't mean to overwhelm with statistics, but reality does matter.  The windmill parts weren't bought with tax dollars.  The government isn't paying for a majority of the windmill costs.  We are already "opened up" to oil and gas production.  Solar power has changed a lot since the 60's.  The sun does shine in Vermont.  For example, Iím paying the same cost per gallon as you to heat my home, but my heating system didnít run yesterday, and it wonít be running todayóbecause the sun is shining.

You got me curious about compressed natural gas vehicles.  There may not be much savings there.  You can buy a CNG Honda Civic today.  According to the EPA, it would save $200 per year in fuel costs assuming 15,000 miles/yr, compared to a Civic Hybrid.  The cheapest CNG Civic costs about $2100 more than the Hybrid, so it would take more than 10 years and 150,000 miles for the fuel savings to equal the price increase.  So even if there were a lot of fueling stations, I'm not sure it would be a "huge benefit".  The CNG does save more compared to the regular gas version ($600/yr).  I couldnít tell from the info I was viewing what the incremental cost is because they gave a range of prices for the gas version.  But if you were looking for the cheapest transportation, you would logically compare the CNG Civic to the cheapest gas Civic, and the difference is more than $10,000.

Skippy, I donít mean to pick on you.  I appreciate your directness.  I think I may be oversensitive to unsupported statements that seem to me to be false.  Maybe itís because we hear so many of them these days.  So when I reacted to Chris and your statements that our tax dollars are paying for the windmill parts, in part I may have been reacting to the way many of us are subjected to slanted (and sometimes blatantly false) characterizations of ďfactsĒ, whether they come from Fox News or MSNBC.  (I donít watch TV either, but I visit their websites).  Itís frustrating that we have such big problems to solve and we often canít even get started on solutions because the polarized sides each have their own ďfactsĒ.
gasman353
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« #37 : November 14, 2012, 04:30:08 PM »

Edited due to guest posting
« : November 17, 2012, 11:09:31 AM Henry »
gasman353
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« #38 : November 14, 2012, 05:30:50 PM »

Edited due to guest posting
« : November 17, 2012, 11:09:50 AM Henry »
lena6
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« #39 : November 14, 2012, 05:41:49 PM »

I understand they have a dateline to get the work done.
mirjo
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« #40 : November 15, 2012, 02:53:44 AM »

Does anyone care how the operation of these things affects the people who live next to them? I think it is a little more than a NIMBY situation. If stuff I've read is  true, these things should NOT be constructed anywhere near homes. I guess we'll find out what's fact and what's not.

My concern about all the "green energy" going on here, is I don't think it's well thought out. I feel it's a knee jerk reaction. We've known for a very long time the need for different energy sources,  but did very little until the last few years when fuel prices rose. There are a number of alternative energy sources that could be utilized in different ways, but this is the splashiest/easiest (?) to accomplish perhaps in a short amount of time...I do agree a moratorium on these projects for a little while, wouldn't be a bad idea.

If the world gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
7F24
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« #41 : November 15, 2012, 06:31:32 AM »

The blades were attached together on the ground then lifted as one unit.  I figured they would go up Monday or Tuesday, I think the wind delayed that. 

I just have to ask, how do you know these were not "well thought out"? 

Millions of dollars are invested in this project, the only way to get "green energy" cost effective and efficient is to use it.  The more they make, the more they learn.  I would bet that wind and solar energy will someday go the way of the computer, smaller and more powerful.  My phone can do more than a room full of computers could in the 60's.  If no one invested in those computers you wouldn't be reading my rambling now....okay....maybe that's not a good example.
Kathleen
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« #42 : November 16, 2012, 03:43:47 PM »

There were public meetings about the project over a year ago and Georgia and Milton residents were invited to attend them.  It's not something that just happened overnight; it's been in the research and planning stages for quite some time now.  I seem to remember Henry even posted a "mock" picture of what the mountain would look like with the windmills.
gasman353
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« #43 : November 16, 2012, 05:09:06 PM »

Edited due to guest posting
« : November 17, 2012, 11:10:12 AM Henry »
7F24
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« #44 : November 16, 2012, 07:29:49 PM »

Skippy, you should buy whatever kind of wind turbines you want.  If you were to buy American turbines, what brand would you recommend?
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