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Author Topic: Migrant Farmers Traffic Stop in Vermont  (Read 20066 times)
Chris Santee
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« on: September 13, 2011, 11:02:19 PM »

Gov. Shumlin orders investigation into traffic stop involving migrant farm workers
MONTPELIER – Gov. Peter Shumlin was informed today of a traffic stop on Interstate 89 by a Vermont State Police officer resulting in the detention of two passengers -- including a leader of theVermont Migrant Farmworker Solidarity Project and another farm worker -- and the involvement of the U.S. Border Patrol.

The Governor is concerned by accounts of the incident and ordered an immediate internal investigation to determine the facts of what happened and if Vermont State Police bias-free policies were followed. In addition, he has instructed his legal counsel to lead a review of State Police policies relating to undocumented workers in the state with an eye toward ensuring bias-free policing conduct is observed in all settings.


STATE OF VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
VERMONT STATE POLICE PRESS RELEASE
Disorderly Conduct Arrests in Middlesex
Middlesex, VT - 09/13/2011 – Today, September 13 at approximately 2:00PM troopers from the Middlesex Barracks arrested three subjects for disorderly conduct while blocking U.S. Border Patrol vehicles that were attempting to leave the parking lot. John J MacLean, age 51 of Burlington, VT; Brendan O’Neill, age 38 of Underhill, VT; and Avery Brook, age 29 of Burlington, VT were cited and released for Disorderly Conduct a violation of 13 V.S.A. § 1026 (5). All three are scheduled to appear Vermont Superior Court, Washington County Criminal Division, in Barre on November 3rd at 12:00 PM.

At the time of the incident there were five people blocking the driveway to the Middlesex Barracks by locking arms and refusing to allow the U.S. Border Patrol agents to leave. When ordered by troopers to move out of the way two complied, the remaining three refused. MacLean, O’Neill, and Brook were at the Middlesex Barracks objecting to the U.S. Border Patrol transportation of two suspected illegal immigrants from Mexico.

The suspected illegal immigrants were passengers in a vehicle that was stopped by a Vermont State Police trooper for speeding 88MPH in a 65MPH zone on Interstate 89 at mile marker 59, in the town of Middlesex, earlier in the day. Upon stopping the vehicle, the driver provided valid identification and was released with the possibility of a future civil citation.

Through the course of the traffic stop it was learned that the passengers were allegedly residing illegally in the United States. Troopers contacted the U.S. Border Patrol, and Border Patrol agents issued an Immigration Detainer requesting that the Vermont State Police detain the individuals until their arrival to the Middlesex Barracks.

At the time of this press release, both subjects were released by the U.S. Border Patrol with a Notice to Appear at a future date.

“An internal investigation has been order, as well as a review of policies relating to incidents involving undocumented workers in the state to ensure bias-free policing conduct in all settings ,” said Colonel Tom L’Esperance, Director of the Vermont State Police. “The Vermont State Police take seriously the necessity of ensuring fair and humane treatment of all people living and working in Vermont, regardless of their race, ethnicity, immigration status, or other personal criteria.”



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David Shea
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 06:41:47 AM »

What is the problem here?  Sounds like the VSP were doing their job. 
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Stand Alone Defense
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 07:34:04 AM »

Illegals in Vermont always get a free pass Dave, our state government is much like our federal they don't see just being illegally in the USA as a crime.   
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Loctavious
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 08:27:07 AM »

the problem?  Racial Profiling.  What if they were legal workers?  VSP would have a law suit on their hands that tax payers would pay for.

That was pretty ugly after 9/11 and only served to energize the finatics aborad and victimize the peace-loving nationalities that were/are legal citizens of this country.

Can't pick and choose when we back the law right? 

Fair outcome here?  - give them 30 days to settle affairs make a little more cash ( as they do the grunt work that the rest of us don't want to do around here) before deportation.
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 10:16:22 AM »

LMAO Loctavios how is this in anyway racial profiling?  The person was speeding and pulled over which is a lawful stop anywhere in the world!! The officer asked for ID and the Illegals did not have any and stated they were illegal !! Pretty cut and dry if you ask me!! 

Also remember the guys that did 9/11 they were all here legally... so the fact that someone is a citizen doesn't really mean crap today.  As for peace-loving nationalities...Well I would say to you maybe go spend sometime on the ground in that area of the world before you categorize them. 

Here is little saying remember.... 90 percent of Muslims are not Terrorist true, but 90 percent of terrorist are Muslim.   
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 11:15:39 AM »

I wasn't talking about peace-loving nationalities in other countries- i was talking about the ones - living here in the US as citizens legally - that were guilty by association after 9/11. Sure we were all scared - but fear isn't unbiased now is it?  I myself, Havign to fly afterwards was uneasy.  Partly because of the racial threat, partly becuase i thought we were untouchable - that our government was highly effective in protecting us.  I didn't attack it afterwards as where is the productivity in that?

The trooper did NOT have to ask for IDs for everyone in the car - only the driver - thus his reasoning DOES come into question FXDHS.  When you get pulled over - has the policeman ever asked for all IDs of everyone in the car?  Never has that been asked of me.  THUS - unsual behavior that appears to be biased- which would violate their own policies - cut and dry?  Maybe not - if the illegals were acting suspicious or nervous than he HAS probable cause ( though that hasn't been released to the public)

Are you contesting the law?  Interpreting it in your own way?

A little Saying?  From who?  a credible source?  or someone who is biased themselves?    No where did i say illegals should get a free pass nor did i take a stab at local or state government in the process - which is where many arguments/debates go astray - when folks stray from purely factual discussions.
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 12:23:46 PM »

The little saying it's from a friend that is no longer with us because he died in Iraq 5 years ago. A car loaded with explosives(VBIED) drove at his convoy but instead of shooting it(he would still be alive) he did what his ROE told him to and made hand gestures to try and make them stop!!  You know because people back here in the states like you know all about the Peace-love culture over there in Iraq and were making a stink about the old ROE that was in place.  Those who were fighting there were being to hard on the Iraqi people LOL.  So instead of leaving the decision to shoot up to someone who has been trained to make that decision people back here state side made it for him.

The Men who did 9/11 again were all legally here and residing in the USA.  So i still don't get where weather they are weather here or there makes a difference? A culture is defind by it's people and practices not by where they live in the world. 

Oh and Yes it is very common practice to ask for the ID of everyone in the vehicle!! IT IS CALLED OFFICER SAFETY!!! I want to know who I'm dealing with on a traffic stop!! getting an ID from just the driver doesn't help me much if the guy in the back seat is a wanted murderer!!!

Also how much interaction have you had with people illegally in the USA?  I have had a little bit and I will tell you that any person in uniform shows up and people who are not legal, much like people who are doing something illegal, stick out like a sore thumb.  Not that someone has to act funny for and officer to ask you to identify yourself as long as initial contact(Traffic Stop) was made legally and doesn't infringe on their 4th amendment rights.  Which in my opinion they shouldn't even have because they are not US Citizens.
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 12:39:46 PM »

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2011/09/petrol_station_employee_wishes_1.php

Here is some racial profiling!! I'm assuming that is what you mean by innocent people being targeted
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Loctavious
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 12:55:25 PM »

Lets break this down:

You attack me and assume I'm the "people back in the states" who call the shots ( you're right - let's stop pretending we're civilized because we're not and no one fighing wars, exectuing criminals, walking by homeless on the streets engulfed in alcoholic depression {some of them veterans who's country didn't get them the help they needed} is) because i have an opinion contrary to yours.  You have emotions based on your opinions ( or your opinions generate youR emotions) and your opinins are based on your experiences or more succinctly those of others.  Thus you're allowed to think and feel however you like.  And this allows you to rationalize attacking someone else for the right to have thier opinion based on their experiences ( or those of others just like you do).

You hear someone elses account of an experience and before you think critically, you entrust everthing being told to you, in the manner it is, is purely the facts.  When you probably know that emotions cloud the truth and the facts.  I too have friends and family in the arm services and know have seen what being immersed in such environements can do to a human.  Our Higher thinking brains were not meant for such stress and trauma.  I do not belittle or refute the grotesqueries of war and the evil of enemies who care not for decency, let alone human life.  What I do suggest is that if we do want to be civilized - we come to terms with our biggotry, hypocracy, and arroagnace as a species as these are the root causes of many a conflict..

Common for police to ask for all IDs of everyone in a car WHERE?  and how do you know?  are you a cop?  got a lot of police friends that you'll have back you on this?  even if you did - the fact you don't even consider the possbility of their being bias speaks volumes.  Police are just like you and me - rooted in personal belief and convictions - and they, for the most part, have to and do leave those at home or in the car when they're on duty.  NOT all can though - just as not all of us CAN not speak our biases in every day life 

Just as your friend thats no longer with us ( god bless and rest their soul and sacrafice) made the saying up  it was surely more about the region and hell they were in - not here - which is what we're talking about - lets not keep trying to change the venue.  I don't think you'd go into a mosque in VT or New York and recount your saying.   As you would surely look prejudiced and biggoted.  And i have to think you're not that at all - just passionate.

We are a nation built on immigrants.  We are the richest nation in the world - living amongst one of the poorest and unsecure nations - of course they want in.... they want what we have it's all they see.  Nevermind the cost of it wepay every day.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 01:38:59 PM by Loctavious » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 04:57:18 PM »

The opinions of people who personally attack others in what is supposed to be a civil discussion, are almost never based on facts.  These people generally "believe" rather than "think", regardless of the facts.

I work in immigration enforcement, and I find some of the comments here too silly to be worth addressing.
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Thor
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 05:57:56 PM »

Dave,

     I agree with you, it sounds like VSP were just doing their jobs. Perhaps they can solve this problem by rewording their statement....

 “The Vermont State Police take seriously the necessity of ensuring fair and humane treatment of all people living and working in Vermont, regardless of their race, ethnicity, immigration status, or other personal criteria.” 

     and replace "immigration status" with "people who are legal immigrants". If they are here illegally, then they are already criminals and as such, deserve to be treated in a manner appropriate. I'll bet Shumlin makes this his pet project and ensures that these mugs get free health care, in state tuition to UVM, access to free legal representation in order to submit a lawsuit against VSP, etc....

     If they are here illegally, they are not protected by Constitutional rights. And they have been given a "notice to appear" by the Customs and Border Patrol folks, which equates to a "notice to disappear".

Josh,

     Isn't 25mph over the speed limit "reckless driving/endangerment", and warrant such a request from the VSP officer? I would think that this traffic stop, and the request for identification from all occupants is justified in this instance.
     














     
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Scott
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 05:58:28 PM »

LEO's had every right to ask for ID.
Key word being "ASK". Wink
 
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Scott
Thor
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 06:06:43 PM »

Great point Scott.
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Corm
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 07:07:14 PM »

In my humble opinion, the VSP did their job exactly as it should be done. I agree completely with what Thor and David Shea, and most of what FXDHS, had to say. I don't understand why people are upset about this. Those folks are here illegally, send them home!

Corm

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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 12:23:56 AM »

It is most defenitely common practice for VSP to check the Ids of all in the car. That has been the case every time I have been stopped. And I am a red blooded legal semi law abiding citizen.
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