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: Full-Day Kindergarten Snuck in Budget Without Advance Public Notice  ( 71218 )
rod anode
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meathead,: dead from the neck up!


« #45 : January 19, 2011, 01:43:08 PM »

people that rent should not be allowed to vote on school budgets
DrewCrash
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« #46 : January 19, 2011, 05:12:38 PM »

Although I support full day kindergarten and therefore disagree with Patricia, I am thankful for her making all of this public knowledge and starting the conversation we are all having. If it wasn't for Patricia, how would we have known? So thank you.

That's all I got.
red
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« #47 : January 20, 2011, 06:44:13 AM »

I would like to know how it is going to change my taxes.
rod anode
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meathead,: dead from the neck up!


« #48 : January 20, 2011, 06:21:35 PM »

oh im sure they will shuck and jive you and tell you it wont cost anymore ,thats what they did here in fletcher and most of them bought it now we all have to pay for it
JLB
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« #49 : January 23, 2011, 10:40:44 AM »

3 Full Days of Kindergarten starting at 8:10, ending at 2:45.    Is this Mon., Wed., Friday?    What happens the other two days?   

JLB
red
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« #50 : January 23, 2011, 11:18:10 AM »

I think it means 3 classrooms for 5 days with 1 teacher and a para in each room.
JLB
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« #51 : January 23, 2011, 07:44:26 PM »

Food for thought:

"More than three-quarters of Vermont’s elementary schools offer full-day kindergarten, up sharply in the past several years, said Manuela Fonseca, the early education coordinator for the Vermont Department of Education."

http://www.stowetoday.com/waterbury_record/news/article_81042504-f7c8-11df-b527-001cc4c002e0.html


"Among public school kindergartners, 54 percent attended a full-day program."  in 1999
Dept of Education: Institute of Educational Services
We are the research arm of the U.S. Department of Education, and by law our activities must be free of partisan political influence.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/web/2004078.asp


Take a look at the Grade Expectations set by the Vermont Dept of Education.  I can see why the administrators feel they need a full day to teach what is required by the State.
http://www.education.vermont.gov/new/html/pubs/framework.html

JLB
Mummy
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« #52 : January 24, 2011, 09:23:46 PM »

Family time is disappearing  ....   Mother & Father spend sometime with your kids while they are still kids!

I vote NO to Full Day DAY CARE/Kindergarten at Tax Payers Expense!

VOTE  = NO
red
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« #53 : January 26, 2011, 06:49:39 AM »

I think we push our kids to grow up to fast.
FletcherGram
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« #54 : January 26, 2011, 10:50:11 AM »

To Mummy and red, Bravo, thank you for saying it!
To Rod, we get what we vote for. Shouldn't we be more vocal at town meeting time? I would like to see a Board that will stand up to the teachers and union and bargain for what taxpayers feel is justified, not to the union demands and scare tactics. Have you checked out Fletcher Elementary's student scores on the 'net. Pathetic. Can't wait to see the upcoming town report and budget. Let's see if the major increase in expense is teacher's contracts. OK, I'm done venting now.
rod anode
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meathead,: dead from the neck up!


« #55 : January 26, 2011, 05:16:34 PM »

fletch ,the problem is I didnt vote for it I voted against it,but I still got it but  I dont want it ,ive been told to  be happy for it
FletcherGram
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« #56 : January 26, 2011, 05:40:20 PM »

Yup, we all have to live with votes that didn't go our way. Can we say Shumlin? Just kidding, well sort of :-) As we know by reading all the topics of discussion, we're entitled to our opinions and differences.
rod anode
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meathead,: dead from the neck up!


« #57 : January 26, 2011, 07:04:25 PM »

hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my side hurts
vtgoober
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« #58 : January 31, 2011, 10:46:56 AM »

During the 1/10/11 board meeting, kindergarten teachers told the board that with the additional time a full-day would provide they would be able to spend more time with individual students, meet the needs of the current intervention or ‘at-risk’ students within the full-day setting (currently addressed by having the small group stay for a full-day four days a week), and have time to enrich the individual needs of those students above grade level standards.

What is the time per student difference between a 2/3 and a full day?  With our extended or 2/3 day program (4 classrooms & teachers from 8:10am-12:00pm next year), children are at school for 3 hours 50 minutes or 230 minutes/day.  Using the average enrollment of 60, there are 15 students per class.  Dividing 230 by 15 shows the teachers average 15.33 minutes per student per day.  With a full-day program (3 classrooms & teachers from 8:10am-2:45pm next year), the children are at school for 6 hours 35 minutes or 395 minutes/day.  Using the same enrollment, there are 20 students per class.  Dividing 395 by 20 shows the teachers average 19.75 minutes per student per day.  Subtracting extended day minutes from full-day minutes shows a total gain of 4.42 minutes per student per day.  Multiplying 178 school days by the 4.42 minutes equals a total overall gain of 786.76 minutes or 13.11 hours or less than 2 full days for the school year.  Going further to deduce the amount of academic time gained to provide the more individualized instruction promised by going to full-day, subtract 60 from full-day minutes for the non-academic additions of recess and lunch and do the same math.  This shows teachers average 16.75 minutes per student per day.   This provides a total academic time gain of 1.42 minutes per student per day.  This equals a gain of 252.76 minutes or 4.21 hours or less than 1 full day for the school year. 

From a simplistic fiscal standpoint, how much does this one day of added academic time cost? 
Taking the 1/10/11 presented figure of $22,539 as the cost of adding full-day kindergarten and dividing it by the 60 kindergarteners, we find the average additional cost per kindergartener for this one day equals $375.65.
How does this compare with the average cost per student across the rest of the budget? 
Taking the budget figure without full-day kindergarten included of $11,211,727 and dividing it by the last available enrollment estimate of all BFA-Fairfax students of 960, we will find the average cost per student per year.  To find the cost per student for one day, divide the yearly cost per student by the 178 school days for next year.  This equals a cost of $65.61 per student per day. 

We seem to have lost sight of the role of parents and childcare providers in the lives and education of our children because there is so much pressure.  There is so much pressure on teachers to meet standards that it skews how people begin looking at the big picture.  Everyone is doing what they have been conditioned to do—pushing larger expectations and pressures onto younger children.  However, moving to a full-day is not the only way to address the pressures.  Teachers and administration perceive and publicize that longer days are the only way to give them more space and time to deal with the increased pressures and provide the children with more individualized instruction.  I would contend that by adding the 4th classroom and reducing class size, we have already provided them the additional space.  It is not meaningful for our community to add a program if it is not quality.  Quality means fewer numbers and more one-on-one time, not more hours in a day. 
Counselor
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« #59 : January 31, 2011, 09:10:20 PM »

First off, I question how you came to determine that these numbers are anywhere close to accurate? Not to mention where did you gather all your information from? IF the information is indeed accurate, I question if this is even a viable approach/ argument. Your argument centers around time. How do you qualitatively or even quantifiably measure student relationships and their connections with adults? If you elect to disregard everything that really happens in a classroom, you can try to argue against full day kindergarten utilizing just the numbers i.e.: "time" with students.  However, any individual willing to spend real time with students and teachers in the classroom knows that "time" in the above argument is really quite arbitrary and only really paints half the picture.

Schools are often a safe place for our students. In many cases a student’s home life is non-existent and/or worse and  just being in the classroom with a caring teacher is enough to spur these students onto great achievements. Clearly, the more this can happen, the better. There is a plethora of research out there to support this argument as well.  Resiliency in students is a powerful thing and they (students) frequently cite these adult connections, as being essential components to their current and future success. Connections are made because adults care. What may be enough for one child is not enough for another. Teachers move from one student to another, connecting with each one... caring about every child and each of their small tastes of success. To attempt to quantify this element of time down to the minute is hard to fathom and seems to me to be rather myopic.

If parents are so infallible, why then did I watch a child crinkle cellophane chip wrappers and then pee on the floor at the last board meeting, in front of their parent, who did not seem to care that their child distracted the room from matters at hand. They then asked someone else to help clean up the mess? Just what did this parent teach this child? That it is OK to distract others and when you make a mess you can expect others to clean up after you?  Why do some boys come to school and feel the need to "mark their territory"? Why do some children come to school not potty trained at all? Why are schools teaching social skills and bullying/ harassment at all? If parents are infallible, these should all be taught at home, no? The fact of the matter is that not all parents are perfect. Thus, schools are tasked with not only educational expectations, but also hygiene, social et. al. expectations. Are these skills not the responsibilities of families and not our schools? Educators will work night and day to mold students into contributing members of a democratic society, even if it means working on potty training, but they need time. More time to meet these educational and social expectations for student learning. More time to care for the children in their charge.

You speak from a very tall pulpit about children needing their parents and how full day kindergarten is not essential etc. Today, we live in a culture where it is routine for both parents to work. Teachers who used to have too many classroom volunteers, today struggle to get just one or two a week. I am certain is not because the parents do not care, but because they do not have the time. They have their own responsibilities and are working to support themselves. Because parents all have their own sets of responsibilities, education today must then focus on the educational system and the educators in it. I know I am taking some liberties here, but if we use your time argument against a full day program, where do these children go at the end of their school day? Most of them go to some sort of child care program. Yes, a few of them may go home but most do not. If more time in the classroom is bad, how is more unstructured time on a bus even close to being a good thing? Not to mention the savings to the district if we could cut out that mid-day bus run and only have the AM and PM runs...

Kids need caring educators. If we bog ourselves down in the minutia of little things, we lose the big picture. The big picture is indeed increased money for the school budget in coming years. However, the big picture is increasing student time with caring adults. It is essential and cannot be quantified or even qualitatively measured. It is essential that our students meet the ever expanding educational expectations. If we cannot count on all parents to do this equally, we must then provide this same level of service to all children district wide. This can then only be done in a structured, standardized fashion.

If the argument against full day, is just that, the full day, what is to be said about the inherent craziness that several transitions in a day can bring about? AS I mentioned earlier, many students in our system come to school and are then subsequently bused to their various child care providers. This is OK with you? At least with full day kindergarten kids are in one place for the full day and they are not transitioning from school and then to childcare. How much time is OK to spend on a bus in transition to the child's care provider?  If we are talking about time, I believe time in the classroom far outranks time on a bus! DO NOT waste my child's time this way when we could instead provide instruction in a nurturing, caring  environment throughout the day! Time is indeed precious, your point here is indeed well taken. However, I want my child’s day/time full of learning and exploration both structured and non-structured, not taking another unstructured bus ride and making another unnecessary transition.
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