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Messages - Norton

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Current News & Events / Re: Dow breaks 14,000 for 1st time since 2007
« on: February 02, 2013, 08:07:28 AM »

Wow, you guys can complain about anything.

A simple news report about the recovery, things are getting better, news that just about anyone, regardless of politics, would consider positive and encouraging.

The very first reply turns it into a bitch-fest about the president, whose name you can't even spell.

Political Issues/Comments / Re: are you a maker or a taker??
« on: January 31, 2013, 06:58:29 AM »
Active Duty troops pay taxes unless they are serving in a tax free zone like the Middle East or Afghanistan.  they are exempt from paying taxes on anything under 80 thousand a year and civilian contractors have this same perk.

Thanks for that clarification

Political Issues/Comments / Re: are you a maker or a taker??
« on: January 29, 2013, 07:29:44 PM »
And, I know reasonable, kind and decent  people who would not survive had they not been the recipient of some support from the government.

So do I.

Saw an interesting video, an interview with Mitt Romney's mother, in which she said that she appreciated the help they got when she and her husband were on welfare.


Political Issues/Comments / Re: are you a maker or a taker??
« on: January 29, 2013, 07:22:42 PM »

Rod, I don't know where the 47% comes from but I have heard that it includes people on social security, active duty-troops (exempt from fed taxes), and anybody making less than the minimum.  Many of these folks are working, and they are not necessarily getting public assistance, so they may not be "takers" (except as Rev Liz points out).

Political Issues/Comments / Re: are you a maker or a taker??
« on: January 29, 2013, 07:14:10 PM »
Per capita, Vermont (not California or Mass. or Illinois) is the highest taxed state.

Thor, do you have a source for that?

Political Issues/Comments / Re: S 32 (The Vermont Bill Against Guns)
« on: January 18, 2013, 08:40:48 AM »


I've read many of your posts on this forum and it's clear that you and I disagree on many political issues.  (Some people have even used that nasty "L" word to describe me.)

But I'm with you on this one.

Our politicians, although they can't seem to make any progress on our larger problems, are falling over each other to get to the microphone on this one.  In the end, they will pass legislation that doesn't make much difference.  They'll expand background checks (I'm OK with that, but it won't make much difference because that's not how the bad guys get their weapons), limit magazine size (again, will only effect the law-abiding), and spend lots of time arguing about whether a weapon is fundamentally different because it has a telescoping stock, or a bayonet mount, or is black, or whatever.

To me, the essence of the second amendment is the right to self-defense.  Folks may say that no one needs a 30-round magazine, but what would you do if your door were kicked in by five crackheads?  And maybe no one needs an AR-15 in particular, but if I were ex-military and that was the weapon I was most familiar with, it might well be my choice for self-defense.  (Well, probably not.  But it should be my choice)  Especially since no matter what legislation is passed, there are still 5 million of them out there, and there's no way the government will be able to get them out of circulation.

"Excuse me Mr. Thor, but I'm here at your home representing your government and I'd like you to give me all the magazines you have that hold more than 6 rounds.  And if you have a rifle with a pistol grip, you should hand that over also.Ē

Yeah, right.

General Discussion / Re: Windmills
« on: January 10, 2013, 08:09:42 AM »

I don't really know why they don't all turn all the time, but it's only been a week or so since they've been operational and I wouldn't be surprised if they are still working on details, tweaking the system, etc.  Sometimes one stops for a short time, then goes again.  Seems like if everything is working properly they would all be turning together.

They do vary in their speed, but not as much as the wind does.  I presume there's some sot of upper limit to the speed.

(I'm not a windmill guy, I'm just guessing)

General Discussion / Windmills
« on: January 10, 2013, 07:09:39 AM »

Now that we've had a couple of weeks with the new windmills up and running, I'm wondering what folks think about the visual impact. 

Beautiful?  Ugly?  Somewhere in between?

Current News & Events / Re: survey
« on: December 17, 2012, 10:16:35 PM »

A pub.

Pizza & burgers.  Wood.  Conversation.

A game on, but just one or two screens, and not loud.  Or a local musician in the corner.

(Either that or a Thai restaurant)

Political Issues/Comments / Re: MLK Memorial
« on: December 12, 2012, 12:48:23 PM »

The "great cost" and "colossal waste" works out to about one-quarter of a penny per US citizen.

Current News & Events / Re: "Bill" Was Spared
« on: November 20, 2012, 06:58:15 AM »
The animal lovers should have had more respect for the animal and let it be used rather than uselessly put down.

What makes you think that the "animal lovers" lacked respect or had the ability to "let it be used"?

The college administration made the decision to kill the ox and also to not use it for food.  Are they the animal lovers you refer to?

Current News & Events / Re: Photos from the Georogia Mountain Wind Project
« on: November 14, 2012, 08:30:10 AM »
Thank you for the statistics, the question is, how does it help me? I'm still paying close to $4.00 a gallon to drive my car and over $3.50 a gallon to heat my home. Solar technology is still the same, it needs sun, where is that gonna come from in Vermont in the winter? Make a windmill and solar panels that I can afford and that will keep my house and family warm I will buy into it. As far as natural gas goes, I know production is up, I was saying lets utilize it more to power vehicles. Replace diesel or gas with natural gas.

I don't mean to overwhelm with statistics, but reality does matter.  The windmill parts weren't bought with tax dollars.  The government isn't paying for a majority of the windmill costs.  We are already "opened up" to oil and gas production.  Solar power has changed a lot since the 60's.  The sun does shine in Vermont.  For example, Iím paying the same cost per gallon as you to heat my home, but my heating system didnít run yesterday, and it wonít be running todayóbecause the sun is shining.

You got me curious about compressed natural gas vehicles.  There may not be much savings there.  You can buy a CNG Honda Civic today.  According to the EPA, it would save $200 per year in fuel costs assuming 15,000 miles/yr, compared to a Civic Hybrid.  The cheapest CNG Civic costs about $2100 more than the Hybrid, so it would take more than 10 years and 150,000 miles for the fuel savings to equal the price increase.  So even if there were a lot of fueling stations, I'm not sure it would be a "huge benefit".  The CNG does save more compared to the regular gas version ($600/yr).  I couldnít tell from the info I was viewing what the incremental cost is because they gave a range of prices for the gas version.  But if you were looking for the cheapest transportation, you would logically compare the CNG Civic to the cheapest gas Civic, and the difference is more than $10,000.

Skippy, I donít mean to pick on you.  I appreciate your directness.  I think I may be oversensitive to unsupported statements that seem to me to be false.  Maybe itís because we hear so many of them these days.  So when I reacted to Chris and your statements that our tax dollars are paying for the windmill parts, in part I may have been reacting to the way many of us are subjected to slanted (and sometimes blatantly false) characterizations of ďfactsĒ, whether they come from Fox News or MSNBC.  (I donít watch TV either, but I visit their websites).  Itís frustrating that we have such big problems to solve and we often canít even get started on solutions because the polarized sides each have their own ďfactsĒ.

Current News & Events / Re: Photos from the Georogia Mountain Wind Project
« on: November 13, 2012, 09:48:51 AM »
If the government would open up more for oil on our domestic soil we wouldn't have to depend on those countries for our energy.

US oil production has been rising since 2008 and is now higher than at any time in the last 10 years.
You may have noticed there's lot's of talk these days about the US becoming the largest producer in the world by 2020.

Net imports of oil have been decreasing since 2005

Natural gas is the other energy source we need to open up to.

US natural gas production is higher than it has ever been in history.

Solar hasn't made any progress since the 60's.

The first solar panels from the late 1950ís cost about $300 per watt.  During the 1970ís the price dropped from about $100/W to about $20/W.  Today itís about $1/W.  In other words, the price has declined about 99% since the 60ís.

Current News & Events / Re: Photos from the Georogia Mountain Wind Project
« on: November 10, 2012, 07:43:10 AM »
a majority of the money is from government subsidies

Skippy, do you have a source for that info?

According to this article from the Milton Independent, the project will cost 28 million dollars and government subsidies will total 8 million.  That's not a "majority"


I'm not going to argue that the subsidy isn't too large.  I think it is.  But all of our energy sources get subsidies from the government, including the oil industry which certainly doesn't need them.  And the nuclear power industry literally could not exist without being continually propped up by our tax dollars.  These are ongoing subsidies for industries that should by now be able to stand on their own.  That's different from a short-term strategy to kick-start an industry in order to create economies of scale and bring costs down for future projects.

In any event, I was just responding to this:

these parts (paid for with our tax dollars) were from China

Current News & Events / Re: Photos from the Georogia Mountain Wind Project
« on: November 08, 2012, 06:45:27 PM »
From that article it seems the project is owned by local investors.  So our tax dollars didn't buy the parts from China, right?

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