Henry Raymond

Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: Henry on November 10, 2011, 03:12:14 PM

Title: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Henry on November 10, 2011, 03:12:14 PM: Police have swarmed to City Hall Park in Burlington. Authorities have made all the Occupy Vermont protestors leave the park.

Police and emergency crews are responding to shooting at City Hall Park where an Occupy Burlington encampment has been since Oct. 28. A body was removed from a green tent where blood was evident. There is no information on whether the person is alive or dead.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111110/NEWS02/111110019/ (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111110/NEWS02/111110019/)
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Mike Raburn on November 11, 2011, 01:14:10 AM: I saw this on internet.

They say someone may have popped themselves.

Sad if true.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: greenek on November 11, 2011, 07:14:32 AM: It is also sad to think that this shooting at City Hall Park could have been avoided, if there was anyone other than Bob Kiss as Mayor of Burlington. He has continually allowed them to camp there, even though they were in violation of a number of city ordinances. I understand the the Burlington Police have recommended shutting the camp down as a result of the shooting, but Bob Kiss said no.

Makes me grateful that we live in Fairfax, and not in Burlington.

Kevin Greene
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 11, 2011, 08:09:49 AM: Mayor Kiss is of the Progressive Party. Of course he doesn't want to shut this Occupy Burlington down. The loss of life will be blamed on something other than the actual events. Too lax gun control in VT, or whatever. Fact is the people of Burlington continue to vote in these clowns, now they can deal with the repercutions. These "Occupy Wherever" folks seem to be doing a fairly poor job at "Peaceably Assembling". Even if they have any legitimate gripe, their actions speak way louder than their words. And it only takes a couple of parasitic knuckleheads to define an entire group. Perhaps the Occupiers should really police their own!!
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: kevin on November 11, 2011, 09:49:25 PM: I'm unsure of how a man shooting himself has anything to do Bob Kiss allowing the occupy camp to remain there. Thor, as for "These "Occupy Wherever" folks seem to be doing a fairly poor job at "Peaceably Assembling". Even if they have any legitimate gripe, their actions speak way louder than their words. And it only takes a couple of parasitic knuckleheads to define an entire group. Perhaps the Occupiers should really police their own!!" - I think you should take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buovLQ9qyWQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buovLQ9qyWQ). Do the knuckleheads in the video beating unarmed people define an entire group? I believe the actions, or non-actions, of the protesters speak volumes as opposed to the actions of the police.

**Some people may find the content of the video upsetting.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Mike Raburn on November 12, 2011, 12:57:55 AM: There are knuckleheads in EVERY crowd... I am proof positive!

1% "er here.

I'm not in a tent, yet............
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 12, 2011, 07:08:28 AM: Kevin,

You seem to misunderstand my point. Yes these "Occupy Wherever" folks have a right to "peaceably assemble", as long as they have followed the law and obtained the proper permission to gather and demonstrate. And they may have legitimate gripes against the "system" and how unfair it is. But it only takes a few of the many to conduct themselves in an other than peaceable way, and suddenly the entire "movement" is tagged.

With regards to a "piece" of video providing any "proof" that the occupiers are the peaceful ones and the police are the ones instigating the trouble, that is laughable. There is no proof of what has been said to these protesters, perhaps they have been asked to move from a location that they did not have permission to be in. And you obviously have no idea about what law enforcement has permission to do. But to keep it simple, there are levels of resistance (whatever the occupiers do) and appropriate levels of force (what the police are allowed to do) in order to control a situation. Because the police are generally in the reactive mode to whatever the protesters do, the police are allowed to take their level of force 1 step above the level of resistance. That video showed to me, that the police were using non-lethal or less than lethal techniques to remove the protesters from that location. The first level of force is officer presence, that obviously was not working, as the protesters were conducting what we refer to as "active non compliance". That would be level 3 on the Levels of Resistance chart. At that point, the officers are allowed to go "one up" and use less than lethal methods to gain compliance. If you look at sheer numbers, are there more protesters than police? Yes.... so the police can take it to whatever level is reasonable. Additionally, there were no strikes or thrusts to the areas around the shoulders of heads, as even with a baton, this can be lethal force. I think the police showed incredible restraint in this situation. But what would I know, I am just a working class stiff who works multiple jobs to provide for my family.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: greenek on November 12, 2011, 11:36:26 AM: Kevin,

I feel badly for the victim and his family, that the shooting occurred. The point that I was trying to convey was that the Occupy Burlington protesters appeared to determine for themselves what types of behaviors/activities should be allowed in City Hall Park. This was in spite of being provided guidelines from by the city, to allow them to continue camping there.

Violations of these guidelines were brought to the protesters attention, without any repurcussion, implying approval of their actions, and anything goes.

I fully support everyone's right for peaceful assembly, and the free speech that we all enjoy in being able to convey our points of view. I am hopeful that the protesters will learn from this tragic situation.

Kevin Greene

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Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: kevin on November 12, 2011, 08:11:48 PM: Thor,

Some more video of the same incident - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWur3EgwxKw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWur3EgwxKw&feature=related) and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAmVKdQDkeI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAmVKdQDkeI&feature=related)

Some background on Occupy Cal -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/thousands-gather-for-occupy-cal-protest_n_1086963.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/thousands-gather-for-occupy-cal-protest_n_1086963.html)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57322395/cops-arrest-dozens-of-occupy-cal-protesters/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57322395/cops-arrest-dozens-of-occupy-cal-protesters/)
http://berkeley.patch.com/articles/occupy-cal-police-action-provokes-national-response (http://berkeley.patch.com/articles/occupy-cal-police-action-provokes-national-response)

There is a ton more information out there if you care to look for it.

I am not a police officer but I can in no way see how the officers in this situation could feel threatened AT ALL. Yes, there are a large number of protesters but they are in NO WAY demonstrating any hostility towards the police. Was the force used a "reasonable level?" In my opinion, no.

As to the proper permits - really? Do you think a permit will be issued to any of these protests/demonstrations? The idea is that people are fed up and have decided to take action. I am not here to agree or disagree with the Occupy movement. What I don't agree with is the uncalled for use of force on clearly peaceful demonstrators. And, yes, I too am a working stiff trying to provide for my family, but that has no bearing on how I view this situation.

One more just for fun - http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/402024/november-10-2011/occupy-u-c--berkeley (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/402024/november-10-2011/occupy-u-c--berkeley)
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 12, 2011, 09:32:29 PM: Dude you absolutely slay me! Keep sending the stuff.... it is hilarious. Maybe you should read some headlines in between surfing your youtube snippets. If you support the Occupy Wherevers, that is cool. I personally do not.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 13, 2011, 09:15:55 AM: Haven't seen the news yet this morning.... anyone know how Occupy Sesame Street is going?
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: greenek on November 13, 2011, 11:10:01 AM: Thor,

According to today's BFP, they held a meeting yesterday to try to come up with a response to the order to vacate city hall park. It doesn't look like they were able to come up with a consensus, and ran out of time at the building they were using. Much of their discussion centered on whether to allow the media during their meeting, and which media types would be allowed.

Stay tuned.

News at 11. Maybe. -;)

Kevin G
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: K. Greenia on November 13, 2011, 04:42:00 PM: Quote from: Thor on November 13, 2011, 09:15:55 AM
Haven't seen the news yet this morning.... anyone know how Occupy Sesame Street is going?

Beep ba-beep beep beep ba-beep beep

And now for another fast breaking news story, we take you to Kermit The Frog..

"Oh, hi, Kermit the Frog here, speaking to you from the lovely City of Burlington, where Oscar the Grouch was just cited into district court for showing his can to Elmo. When asked about the incident, Elmo laughed and said he was tickled by the event.

From the Occupy Sesame Street front, the count reports, 'Bert and Ernie were trampled to death by one, one demonstrator; two, two demonstrators; three, three demonstrators....' We are unable to give you give you exact the details, as the numbers are still being tallied. Grover had planned to attend today's events, but was forced to work overtime at the cafe where an angry customer found yet another fly in his soup. Finally, Prairie Dawn and Big Bird were seen throwing Snuffaluffagus feces at law enforcement, in a deliberate attempt to incite a riot.

In other news, it appears that Cookie Monster has fallen off the wagon. He was seen snorting cookie crumbs in the darkened bathroom of Nectar's by a group of frightened Twiddle Bugs. It is unknown at this time if his contract will be renewed.

This is Kermit the Frog, returning you to your regularly scheduled posting."
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 13, 2011, 08:09:33 PM: And Miss Piggy is still upset with how much her college loans are, AND the fact even with her degree in Mayan Art and its Impact on Global Warming, she cannot seem to find employment in her studied field!!

Perhaps she should hit Al Gore up for a job!! He seems to be making a killing off of it!! And when all else fails, just she could just protest and demand that someone else pay for her college, and give her money. She could change her status to "Illegal Immigrant" and get a much cheaper instate tuition rate at the University of Rhode Island.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: kevin on November 18, 2011, 08:33:32 PM: Maybe this is why you haven't seen the news.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/press-clash-police-during-occupy-wall-street-raid-232215675.html;_ylt=AsmFDbUEOLgxaJa7xj4oov3Nt.d_;_ylu=X3oDMTFkYTlrYnI4BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzcEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlBc3NlbWJseQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTNoZDVhb2ZkBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDYzEwYzgwMzUtZmE3OS0zNzkwLWI1MmYtZjRmZTI3ZTVkY2ExBHBzdGNhdANwb2xpdGljc3xkZXN0aW5hdGlvbjIwMTIEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3 (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/press-clash-police-during-occupy-wall-street-raid-232215675.html;_ylt=AsmFDbUEOLgxaJa7xj4oov3Nt.d_;_ylu=X3oDMTFkYTlrYnI4BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzcEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlBc3NlbWJseQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTNoZDVhb2ZkBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDYzEwYzgwMzUtZmE3OS0zNzkwLWI1MmYtZjRmZTI3ZTVkY2ExBHBzdGNhdANwb2xpdGljc3xkZXN0aW5hdGlvbjIwMTIEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/occupy-wall-street-raid-journalists-arrested_n_1094564.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/occupy-wall-street-raid-journalists-arrested_n_1094564.html)

Freedom of the press?

Meanwhile, here in VT:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111117/NEWS02/111117028/?odyssey=obinsite (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111117/NEWS02/111117028/?odyssey=obinsite) Oy.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 18, 2011, 09:38:26 PM: Kevin,

Dude, you gotta get a hobby or something. You can let this go now. Occupy Whiners is dying. Let it go.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: kevin on November 24, 2011, 08:06:26 PM: Just because it's not on Fox News doesn't mean its dying.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: al brodeur on November 24, 2011, 09:05:40 PM: as for the protesters ok,but clean up your mess or pay to have it cleaned up! I should not have to pay for you. In todays Philadephia paper the cost so far to the city is $530,000
I feel that the protesters should be rounded up and their ID's confirmed and then billed for their share. why should I have to pay? and if they are on unemployment --take it away
after all they are not job hunting like they should be or if they are on welfare take it away.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Chris Santee on November 24, 2011, 09:16:16 PM: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/24/occupy-inspired-campaign-urges-boycott-black-friday/?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/24/occupy-inspired-campaign-urges-boycott-black-friday/?test=latestnews)
Why would you say it's not on Fox News ?
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: mirjo on November 25, 2011, 12:10:58 AM: Oh Kevin, good grief, this is the skinny on the OWS movement here, there, and everywhere:

Regardless of who is out protesting what, where and regardless of whether or not it is peaceful, respectful, legal, acceptable, etc. It is seen by anyone who identifies with the right wing Republican sect as a liberal left-wing (i.e. welfare-recipient) movement--regardless of whether this is the demographic make-up or not. That group includes many you are conversing with in this post and likely anyone in law enforcement, esp those who have been directly involved in this. While this is a generalization, I'm certain I'm pretty close to being accurate.

You'll never get anywhere trying to make your point here. However, this is a free country and everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, to protest (peaceably), rail against the government, and disagree vehemently in all things political.

Thor and I are seemingly polar opposites and have gone toe-to-toe more than once ;-) That said, I have to agree with his comment on the validity of youtube footage--this is something I have pointed out on other matters. I think there is plenty of unprovoked, overly aggressive policing going on with these things all over the country as I am sure there are a number of places that are being trashed. I'm not sure that short, edited video clips are the best way to prove a point or position. I think you're right in your statement about permits et-al. It's ludicrous to think that a permit would be granted for a protest. It's just a way to control the situation and stop it from happening, which is not very American if anyone really thinks about it.

Good luck here.

Happy Thanksgiving All!
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: mirjo on November 25, 2011, 12:24:50 AM: The arrests of the journalists speaks volumes about this situation. If someone wants to cover-up what's happening badly enough to arrest journalists who are doing their job--that's all the more reason for it to continue.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 25, 2011, 12:49:44 PM: Mirjo,

"Seen as a liberal, left-wing movement".... and you think that is because we are conservatives!!!? I think there was more than tryptophan in your turkey yesterday!! It might have something to do with being supported by, Obama, Pelosi, SEIU, ACORN, Van Jones, Left leaning Lame Stream Media, etc... Nothing liberal / left leaning about any of those idiots.

Do these folks have the right to protest? Absolutely. Maybe they even have a legitimate gripe. But if you read the list of the things that OWS are demanding (each site has listed their manifesto), it sure LEAN's left to me.

Should the police have used pepper spray on those students? You weren't there, Kevin wasn't there, I wasn't there. Who knows whether the police were in the right or wrong. But those students had been warned from the faculty that measures were going to be taken to have them removed, as discussed on MSNBC. They spelled it out for them, what the incremental steps were going to be, and the students decided to stand their ground. Oh well..... too bad for them.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Loctavious on November 26, 2011, 03:38:18 PM: Those idiots you mention.... How do they compare to the former administration? I'm curious?

Pepper spraying students sitting on the ground? Even if those kids were calling the police, president, or pope names the use of that sort of force, which inflicts pain n suffering on those who aren't doing the same to others cannot be justified. Hands down. Especially without warning.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Thor on November 26, 2011, 05:38:56 PM: Previous administration was good to go compared to these clowns.

And yes, pepper spraying those students can be justified. They were actually in the passive non-compliant mode. That means that the level of force the police can use is soft tissue/pressure point techniques and other non-lethal methods to get compliance. And they were warned.
Title: Re: City Hall Park Evacuated After Shooting This Afternoon
Post by: Mike Raburn on November 26, 2011, 10:07:05 PM: Quote from: K. Greenia on November 13, 2011, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: Thor on November 13, 2011, 09:15:55 AM
Haven't seen the news yet this morning.... anyone know how Occupy Sesame Street is going?

Beep ba-beep beep beep ba-beep beep

And now for another fast breaking news story, we take you to Kermit The Frog..

"Oh, hi, Kermit the Frog here, speaking to you from the lovely City of Burlington, where Oscar the Grouch was just cited into district court for showing his can to Elmo. When asked about the incident, Elmo laughed and said he was tickled by the event.

From the Occupy Sesame Street front, the count reports, 'Bert and Ernie were trampled to death by one, one demonstrator; two, two demonstrators; three, three demonstrators....' We are unable to give you give you exact the details, as the numbers are still being tallied. Grover had planned to attend today's events, but was forced to work overtime at the cafe where an angry customer found yet another fly in his soup. Finally, Prairie Dawn and Big Bird were seen throwing Snuffaluffagus feces at law enforcement, in a deliberate attempt to incite a riot.

In other news, it appears that Cookie Monster has fallen off the wagon. He was seen snorting cookie crumbs in the darkened bathroom of Nectar's by a group of frightened Twiddle Bugs. It is unknown at this time if his contract will be renewed.

This is Kermit the Frog, returning you to your regularly scheduled posting."

LOVE IT!

Animal is my favorite!

But that's me.