Henry Raymond
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: sdogallen on January 26, 2011, 07:03:22 PM
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Am I the only one that doesn't understand why Fairfax doesn't keep the sidewalks in town maintained during the winter months? Right now the sidewalk on Hunt St. is a snowmobile trail and if I remember right that beautiful new bridge in the center of town has walkways on both sides that are snowbanks right now. It also seems very dangerous to have schoolchildren walking IN Hunt St. at the busy times of the day trying to get to and from school.
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Do the kids walk when the weather is like this? I have been coming home from work before and the buses are stopping on Main St. to drop kids off. I am not sure if this is normal or not.
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I noticed kids walking down Hunt st. this morning... And the answer is that it "costs too much to maintain the sidewalks in the winter".
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I have been griping about this for years, and each year, when the snow falls, the kids are forced to walk in the street. If the town can't keep them clean (because they don't have proper equipment, I've heard), then they should institute an ordinance requiring the home owners to keep the sidewalks clear in front of their properties. It really boggles my mind that we invest in sidewalks and walkways and yet don't think it's necessary to keep them accessible for 4 or 5 months of the year, especially when we have school children using them as a way to school each day. Is this showing that we care about our community? Come on people!
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I walk to & from work even in the winter & it is a pain.
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I bring my kids to school every morning, and there are always at least a few kids walking to school. The school rarely closes for weather, so it makes it that much more dangerous having the kids walk in the road. There have been several mornings just this winter that even the main roads weren't in good condition but there are still kids walking in the roads on their way to school. This is an accident, more likely a tragedy, waiting to happen.
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Seems like it would cost less to buy the equipment and pay someone than be sued by someone that got hit by a car or truck.
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Why can't the people that live there shovel the sidewalk. That seems like a no brainer to me. If there is an elderly couple that can't do it why not offer to do it for them. People try to complicate the simplest things. Shovel the sidewalk. It is the right thing to do.
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If you cant afford to maintain something Dont build it
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unshoveled sidewalks may be frustrating to some in the winter, but I for one am glad the town isn't like some other towns/cities which have passed ordinances making it mandatory to shovel sidewalks which cross your property.
I agree with roadkill. It starts with shoveling the sidewalk, then what. Do home owners have to replace broken concrete when that goes bad, will they eventually have to shovel the road in front of their houses too?
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Correct me if I am wrong but............................I would assume the sidewalks were a grant. Town improvements. Why not do it. If we don't some other town will. I think our first concern could be "why are there government grants for sidewalks" if we are going broke. If we take pride in our town and help make it easier on others, we would shovel the sidewalks and think nothing of it. The only time you need ordinances is when people wont do what is necessary and right for the people. The kids need the sidewalks cleared in the winter. Clear the sidewalks. Politics and taxes do not have to be attached to everything we do. Just my opinion. For heaven sake, we could have a hot coco street party. Maybe this would be a fun community service.
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Sounds like a great project for the school kids!
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"The only time you need ordinances is when people wont do what is necessary and right for the people."
The problem is, not everyone agrees on what is "necessary and right".
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Discussion about sidewalks for school children and others walking neglects to mention that the sidewalk on Hunt Street was cleared until the town plow filled it in with slush that froze and I could not blow it any longer. An ordinance to require householders to clear sidewalks is absurd under these conditions.
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Can't blame the plow for clearing the roads, this is a definite must and we are lucky to have such a great road crew. I have to shovel the end of my driveway from the plow going by several times during a storm to not get a solid bank and I clear out my walkways as well as my father's when necessary. Just a part of living in Vermont.
I think the homeowners should be responsible for clearing out sidewalks "as best as they can, no specific regulations" and if there are elderly out there who cannot, and you are a neighor; lend a hand. Also, High schoolers are looking for community service hours and this would be a great way to help them and the community.
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Homeowners do have to shovel the end of their driveways, but should they be "mandated" or even persuaded to shovel the sidewalks in front of their properties? Even if we are not elderly, sometimes we don't get to shovel our driveways until the evening after work or a day later, which doesn't help the pedestrians much in the mornings. Also, lots of folks pay people to plow or shovel their own driveways due to time constraints or physical limitations - should they also have to pay to have the sidewalks done in front of their houses?
I applaud the folks who do it out of the goodness of their hearts and have the time and energy to do it, but don't recommend a mandate on this kind of stuff. I also agree it is dangerous for our pedestrians to walk in the road in the winter, so some sort of solution is needed. Not sure asking the homeowners to do it is going to solve this issue.
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how about a tax "incentive" to the homeowner to keep his sidewalk clear ?
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I was thinking that to Chris!! The problem would be how would the town set it up and ensure the work gets done? IDK
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Tax incentive is an idea, but then you will have to babysit who does it and who does not. Will renters clear the walkways if landlords demand..... then homeowners will complain that the plow filled it back in.....
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There was this big push for Vermont Safe Routes to school, I believe i read about that movement on this web-site, there definitely must be some money out there to fund this idea, grants etc... I believe that to have safe routes to schools you must provide a safe route to school
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Maybe I should just close my mouth but .......................................I would think that if the flippen sidewalks need to be shoveled, the homeowners, renters would just do it. If that will not be the case then I will personally get a group of people and go shovel the sidewalks. We go out of the country to help other people and we can't even help our children in our own community. To me this is unbelievable. For anyone that would like to help, we will be out on the sidewalk from 8:30 until it is done. Bring your shovels. Can anyone tell me where they start? Problem solved and hopefullly this is the end of the coversation. We are embarassing ourselves.
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Thank God I live up here on the Fletcher Road where I don't have a sidewalk going by my house that somebody feels I should shovel. I am 77 years old, have had two heart attacks and a degenerative spine with arthritis. Now I can drive up the road in Fairfax and go by a number of houses where there are people older and worse off than I am and you want to force them to shovel the sidewalk in front of their house.
I won't name names, but I am sure most of you know people on that sidewalk route that are unable to shovel the sidewalk in front of their house. Do you expect those people to hire someone to do that?? We talk about helping people and being nice to our elderly?? An ordinance like that would never get my vote.
It is too late this year, but that sort of thing should be on the town ballot, the same as building or putting money into the sidewalks in the first place.
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I for one, don't think this conversation is embarrassing to anyone and it's a real problem. The solution for volunteers to go meet at 8:30 a.m. is very admirable and I hope it works out for every snow storm, but I don't think that's feasible; unless the volunteers don't have other committments in the morning, i.e. a job; daycare responsiblities, etc. I really feel the homeowners shouldn't be responsible every time it snows to clear the sidewalks in front of their home. If they want to do it, that's great, but their time is also too unpredictable with availability issues such as vacations, jobs, illnesses, age, and ability. Perhaps it should be a town responsibility, thus costing money, but it may be be worth it to provide a safe walkway for our townspeople. I have no idea what the increase in the budget would be to provide this service. Does anyone?
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If there was a sidewalk in front of our house, it would have been buried in about 5 feet of compacted snow from the plows. I'm glad there isnt one... I would not support such a regulation requiring homeowners to clear them. That is not feasible or sensible.
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I did not mean that it should be a mandated thing, I just feel that if there is a problem and the sidewalks need to be shoveled than I will help to shovel them. I guess I opened my mouth before I heard someone say the plow. If we were to go shovel and the plow came and covered it up again I would be very sad. I guess I will do my homework before we go. Does this happen? No, volunteers can't be there every day to shovel but maybe after a storm we could start working on it. If it was a joint effort, it should not take that long. Hopefully. Just like in Henry's case, we would be more than happy to help do it. You should not have to pay someone to be neighborly.
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As a candidate for both School & Select Boards,
if elected to School Board, I will follow "roadkill" first and check Safe Routes to School for possible funding.
If elected to Select Board (and Safe Routes has no funding), I will explore discussion on tax incentives
and if that doesn't work, I am interested in some of those who may have found themselves on the wrong side of the law
doing a little Community Service (Fairfax residents with DLS).
I will NOT support an ordinance requiring sidewalk shoveling by the homeowner.
We have an upcoming meeting on creating sidewalks and I do not know that I could support more sidewalks without a detailed upkeep plan.
Now, I must go shovel.
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A team of Volunteers to shovel is a great idea (in theory), but it seems difficult to get volunteers to shovel around fire hydrants.
Seems to me, the best plan for maintenance would be to account for snow removal in the town/highway budget. I think trying to create a "tax incentive" would be a logistical nightmare.
I know Swanton has a narrow, articulated machine designed for plowing / sweeping / snowblowing sidewalks. It is out after every storm and does an excellent job of keeping the sidewalks there clear for students walking to school. I know a used one in good working condition can be purchased for under $10K, and it could be used as a sweeper the rest of the year when needed. I realize there is also personnel cost associated with operation.
The simple fact is, IF the majority of citizens believe our town should have certain ammenities, then those things (recreation park, clear sidewalks, street lights) need to be paid for. The only way for the cost to be shared by everyone is for it to be paid for with general town tax dollars. Forcing home owners with sidewalks on their property to shovel the sidewalks is NOT fair to the minority who have sidewalks, giving tax incentives/breaks to those who shovel their sidewalk isn't fair to those who are willing to shovel for a tax break, but have no sidewalk to shovel. It seems like an all or nothing issue: either we decide (vote) to have clear sidewalks and pay for it, or we decide to be thrifty and declare the sidewalks to be seasonal sidewalks.
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Very well put, Cedarman :)
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For those of you who are not aware, a TAX INCENTIVE is also called a tax increase.
The incentive would be for those homeowners who have a sidewalk in front of their home.
The increase would be for the homes outside of the village center that do not have sidewalks.
Government has it's place. Haven't we learned that stimulus money, tax incentives and bail outs do not work. Can anyone say " Cash For Clunkers" ... I can not believe that a " Tax Incentive" is the on the table to keep sidewalks clean!
It is about time that the citizens of this country realize that the big government is not going to save us all with a big fat check, incentive or the like. Fairfax has always been a place where ingenuity, common sense and hard work are hallmarks of the community. Let's not lose sight of that.
Are any of the posters on this forum parents of children who walk to school? If so, what have you done to protect your children. Are you concerned? If so would it be possible for the transportation director at BFA to have a temporary bus stop for main street kids until the snow melted? Is there room on the buses?
I hope that a nuts and bolts solution to the problem can be found before another regulation, mandate, law or ordinance is put on the books.
Remember K.I.S. Keep it simple.
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So, obviously I opened my mouth before knowing the ins and outs. I apologize. I just got frustrated with the whole idea that this topic comes up all the time and no one is willing to help or have a solution to the problem. I found out where the sidewalks were and by the looks of it, we could go shovel them but there is no place to put the snow and the plow would just cover it back up. I renig on my community efforts. I guess we will have to address it another way. Good post cedarman.
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David, I may be wrong, but last I knew ALL students could be picked up by the school bus if they so choose- even if they live across the street from the school. Not being a parent, I'm a bit removed from current rules, so I very well may be wrong...
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The way I interpret what you wrote Dave would almost be like saying I dont have any kids in school so why should I have to pay taxes to the school, Essex cancelled school yesterday because their sidewalks wern't cleared, granted 85 percent of them walk to school but that super made a decision based on the safety of children, I have learned in my life and 20 years in the army, it is always best to error on the side of caution.
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Mr. Stewart,
It can be dangerous to make assumptions.
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Thank you for reminding me Mr. Shea. You say a tax incentive for clearing ones own side walks is a tax increase for all tax payers wether they have a sidewalk or not. you are correct. Would a tax incentive to the homeowners of the properties with sidewalks be less than the town becoming responsible for clearing the sidewalks? people are going to pay either way, which is less? I meant nothing deragatory Mr. Shea, Im not a politician but I do agree with the person who started this thread that the children, parents, and maybe a few tourists shouldnt be walking on the road because at least one sidewalk has been turned into a snowmobile trail. I support most everything you do Mr. Shea and I admit I was wrong to assume, I know what you mean. This is an issue that needs disecting by people much smarter than me but i if I could ask you to do one thing. What do other Towns and Municiapalities do? Is Fairfax not providing something almost everyone else is? I didnt start this but I do agree 100 % with the person that did. Thanx Dave and by the way, Im on your side. Mr, Stewart
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I just have to say one more thing about this issue and Im done until Town Meeting, Thank You Mr, Erdl !!!!!! I have worked here at BFA for 12 years and you have always done an excellent job in snow blowing the sidewalk down Hunt street, an excellent job. every year since I retired from the Army. I feel your pain Mr. Erdl and hated to see the snowmobiles using it. That made it impossible for you to do. Thank you and I want everyone to know that 1 person use to take care of an entire road, Mr. Erdl.
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Roadkill,
Let's talk about this face to face.... I am sure it would be a lot more productive. I respect your position as well as the hard work that you do for the town. As an example, I noticed just how hard you and Bob worked to clear the snow off of the roof of the school this past week. All hand work!
Thanks for what you do!
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Wow! I hope they NEVER put a sidewalk in front of my house; I am sick of shoveling this year! I've had enough to do with the walkways, porches, driveway, & I am lucky to usually get plowed out!