Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: mkr on October 17, 2011, 02:37:41 PM
I saw a similar sign when I was leaving the blood drive today. Are they talking about contracting this out?
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: rwing180 on October 17, 2011, 02:55:41 PM
I also saw the sign Sunday & wondered what it was about ?
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: David Shea on October 17, 2011, 05:41:25 PM
Currently Fairfax & Fletcher are looking at consolidation. The bus issue it this: Fletcher does not own buses and contracts with First Student. Fairfax owns its own buses and hires its own staff. School consolidation will require keeping things the same or Fairfax potentially may sell the buses and put transportation out for bid.
I am speculation on this so if you would like real answers, contact Ned Kirsch at the supervisory union.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 18, 2011, 05:22:45 AM
The bus "idea" was in place before the merger meetings started.
Nothing official was ever given to the Fairfax News to report.
The "idea" I heard about was FWSU taking over the bus fleet.
With Fairfax having purchased a bus almost every year, I did not think it sounded like a good idea.
But, please remember, nothing official has been given to the Fairfax News.
I heard about the idea when we began discussing the merger and buses.
The Fairfax News will call Ned Kirsch and the property owners today. Have a great day, all !
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 18, 2011, 05:23:54 AM
and on another note to the property owners. The front porch is looking great !!!
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Dick Brown on October 18, 2011, 11:34:32 AM
I agree Chris ....the front porch looks great , and remembering Duane's quest for excellence in whatever he did , he would have it no other way . Probably it would even satisfy Cyrus , his Uncle , who kept a pretty neat house himself . On this other matter , a slow rainy day in Punta Gorda brings to mind that , based on other mergers I have observed in the past , merging bus services might be a real probability for this joint action to occur , and certainly would be a prudent question to be asked at the November info meetings . The possibility might exist , though , for a separation of particular services if the voters so request , based upon cost efficiency and service of course , but someone more familiar with this process could answer that . Loyalty was always a trait that I admired and tried to practice and it would be difficult for me , as a former administrator to forget the efficient services , safety and daily accommodations made for our programs & students in the past by Bob Gates , Del Sweatt and all of the many cooperative bus drivers who have been utilized in the past . Attempting to solve an emerging situation became very easy when all one had to do was to walk down or call Bob or Del and say ' here's what we need " as opposed to making a long distance call , with all the possible obstacles to a solution. On the other hand , I had no problems with Terry Wright's bus lines when I was principal at Sheldon and I don't think that John Gillis or Del had any problems with Mountain Transit back in the early 90's when we contracted out for Special Ed so it can work . I recognize also that too much loyalty can be construed as a detriment to decision making and it's perhaps fortunate that I don't get paid the big bucks to make those recommendations anymore . It also would have been difficult for me to pull the trigger on the Hot Lunch Program , respecting as I did the job that Nellie , Mary, John and their staffs , had done through the years , but I understand that the Abbey's Services have worked out well. So much for my two cents .
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: mirjo on October 18, 2011, 10:43:06 PM
I'm going to chime in here, because I am not a fan of contracting out services, even though I understand it's done as a cost saving measure, it's not necessarily the best choice. While the Abbey services have worked out fine for the school budget (and certainly for the Abbey) I'm not sure it's really "all that." In fact my kids, who preferred taking hot lunch and did so for years, stopped soon after the Abbey take over. The quality clearly diminished within a year or so. They weren't the only ones who felt that way. I don't know if it's improved any, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: ohhman on October 19, 2011, 12:56:32 PM
I agree with Lisa on the Abbey from what my own kids & daycare kids have voiced! Nothing against the people that run it- they are good people- it's just the rules they have to follow & with food allergies it's understandable. I just know my own boys like the meals LOTS better once they went to Essex Tech!! As for the buses, there is the unknown we were told @ the open mtg the school board held on input to the budget this month. Voice your opinion that we do NOT want our buses contracted out! We will NEVER get them back @ what it'd cost to replace them & once they are gone, it's forever! & there too MAY go field trips & what happens when a kid is dropped to the wrong place (happened to 1 in my care). Our bus driver heard the call & tho not his route, he quickly went to retrieve the child & brought to me safely!! Bet that wouldn't happen if contracted out! We have good people driving our buses, many kids have known them for a long time & we have very efficient people running our bus system to speak clearly to the superintendent that WE WANT TO KEEP OUR BUS SYSTEM THE WAY IT IS!!! Consolidation is NOT always such a positive & effective choice....just look @ what happened with combining the custodial end of 3 schools!!! & if you don't know, ask!!! We are the ones paying the budget so make sure you Attend & voice your opinion- whether you have kids in the school or not! If you pay tax, & yes renters pay tax in a roundabout way!- be informed!!
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: sdogallen on October 19, 2011, 05:23:43 PM
I'm in total favor of contracted services for busing. As long as they stay away from the big companies like First Student, Mtn. Transit etc... and get a local ,small company there that pays attention to detail... it will work. What is there now all looks good on the OUTSIDE but if you only knew what is going on the INSIDE... attitudes would be different.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: trussell on October 20, 2011, 10:06:05 AM
As with any purchase, I would be in favor of whichever provides the best value. This isn't always the best price though. Sometimes it's hard to put a dollar figure on certain aspects when contracting for a service. Yes, maybe a private company- large or small- could provide the best price but how do other things factor into the total value- what resources are available if an extra bus or two are needed at the last minute, are the employees receiving a fair wage, is the service being provided reliable, how easy is it for parents/students/school administrators to communicate with the company, how easy will it be to address and resolve conflicts? Although sometimes difficult, to make the decision of what provides the best value you need to remove the human element and emotion out of it. This decision shouldn't be made just because you may like a current bus driver or you don't like the owner of a large bus company. Unfortunately our Select Board and School Board (and probably most others towns' as well) doesn't have the best record of explaining the value behind their decisions (think back to town meeting and the land purchase getting voted down) so this is something that I will be looking into myself before voting on it.
Ok, I'm off to enjoy this awesome fall day :)
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 20, 2011, 10:10:08 AM
By State Law, the School Board is required to explore consolidation in many areas including transportation. They are exploring.
No decisions have been made. You will have a chance to express your opinion at an upcoming School Board meeting (Public Comment).
Georgia would be included (and they are not part of the Fairfax/Fletcher merger).
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: roadkill on October 20, 2011, 05:49:43 PM
First off, Ill quote Henry "did i miss something", Everybody is missing something. And Chris, come on now, the Fairfax News was never told officially so you could not print it. You sound like the Suits running the school, "unless your complaint isn't in writing I cant do anything about it" I like what sdogallen wrote, a bus mechanic at fairfax for 13 years. What appears to be happening on the OUTSIDE isnt really whats happening on the INSIDE. The Administration, Superintendant, School Board are all aware of it but nobody has voiced their complaints "IN WRITING" therefore nothing can be done about it. Chris, your my friend and you know. PRINT IT. Im in favor of contracting the busses out for one reason and one reason only. Trussel said to take the personal part out of it, if I were able to do that I would be 100 percent in favor of keeping the busses. When is this meeting. I dont work for BFA no more.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 22, 2011, 08:43:31 AM
Roadkill, what I heard were "rumors" - Rumors don't make the Fairfax News.
Now, I've found more facts (see my last post) I'd be more worried if the Board weren't considering consolidation, since they'd be breaking State Law. You know there will be an upcoming School Board meeting and the locals will voice their concerns. They will not have to be in writing. Julie will get them all in the minutes.
If you can't make the meeting, Call a school board member and tell them your feelings. I don't even know if the board will have buses on their agenda for the next meeting.
I am on the merger committee. This bus issue has nothing to do with the merger. The buses would be on the March Town Meeting ballot.
I've already spoken with one bus driver and am trying to find time to meet with a second for an article. I'll get all the details and THEN you will read it in the Fairfax News.
Now, when is the next School Board meeting ? Not sure. Personally, I want the buses to stay BFA Fairfax property. But that's just me. I am not on the School Board.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: roadkill on October 22, 2011, 12:07:16 PM
Chris, Im sorry for putting you on the spot like that, i really do apologize, you do know however how I get so upset about some of these issues, we have spoken about them for some time, Scott too, anyhow Happy Birthday and Thank You for all the support you give the community with the many hats you wear. Really, Please dont take any of that the wrong way, I respect you and what you do but Im still bitter about a few things. And PLEASE to everyone, KEEP THE BUSSES
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 23, 2011, 05:45:19 AM
No problem, Gary, no apologies necessary. Thanks for the birthday wishes ! Watch for the article.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: 7F24 on October 23, 2011, 07:05:49 AM
If you get rid of the buses, you will never get them back. I don't understand how it could ever work to our advantage to add a company that is making a profit between the buses and our tax money. The expenses are all still there (buses, maintenance, drivers, fuel, etc), which would be paid for by us to the contractor. Then add in the contractors profit, which we don't pay now. Who controls the contractor's fees after our buses are gone?
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: slpott on October 23, 2011, 08:47:07 AM
I am not real familiar with this stuff but my question is this. What happens when the athletes do really well and need additional bussing to their State Championships and such? Would that be additional from the original contract. With limited knowledge I would vote no for this.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: mirjo on October 23, 2011, 12:42:54 PM
I don't have all the details (yet), but as a resident for over 20 years, I can't come up with any good reason to contract out the buses over the 17 years I have had kids in school at BFA, a lot has gone into establishing and maintaining our fleet, including building a new bus garage. This is likely a money issue (what else), the money is going to go out to a middle man to pay for what we already own. I can't imagine that the real savings would be significant in the big picture. Then there is the increase every time the contract is re-negotiated. I don't see an outside service being better than what we have--even if there are in-house issues.
slpott has a good point about sports/drama etc. What about field trips--not that the kids get many anymore, but while things can be written in a contract, I would bet there are things BFA is able to accomplish seamlessly, because it has its own fleet. Perhaps along the way there were trips that would not have taken place if not for the fact that we had our own buses/ a willing driver in Del or some other/ and teacher(s) who were able to come up with the cash to pay for the gas. It seems I recall a field trip or two that took place at some point during my kids' elementary/middle years that fit this scenario. Likely there have been or will be others.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: ASDuling on October 23, 2011, 03:27:36 PM
When this topic comes up for vote I'd like to hear if there any benefits to Fletcher with Fairfax keeping our bus fleet. Perhaps they have had transportation issues with field trips like some folks here have mentioned. Keeping our busses may be helpful for both communities.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: resqmas701 on October 25, 2011, 10:59:10 AM
One other small added value to keeping the busses, perhaps some have missed. Trussell mentioned the times that an additional bus or two may be needed. One of those time could be in case of a large scale emergency. Fortunately we have not needed to test the theory.....yet. Fairfax is not immune from some of the tragic events that we see around us. If there were an emergency on a large scale in this town, and large numbers of people needed to be moved quickly, the school busses would be one of the greatest resources we have. If they weren't here, they wouldn't be available and the contracted services would go to whoever called them first. Just something to think about.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: al brodeur on October 25, 2011, 08:52:27 PM
this is thought for the bus issue does the state have a bus buying pool for all of its school districts? that way buses are cheaper. the flip side is that if a private contractor has the buses he would not get the mass buyers discount(which should be gotten if too many pockets are not padded) also for the investment that he has made he has to have a dollar return(no free rides) so then as I see it insurance, maybe doubtfull, and drivers thats a touchy one. here where I am at the present a driver earns retirement at half the teachers rate, there is talk here of contracting all of the bus service, as it is now some is contracted the last I knew we had over 130 buses. the driver retirement is the big cost issue along with the $19 hr.
on the consolidation issue how far will the farthest student be from school, would it be better to split fletcher in half where some come to Fairfax and others to a closer school for them or is it illegal to split a town into two school districts, of course the peoples choice should prevail.
of course all of this is a flat landers view, which doesn't count but we have simular problems in dividing the school district up for three high schools with the fourth on the drawing boards
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 26, 2011, 04:40:37 AM
If an elementary student lives near the border,
and attends BFA Fairfax, and his/her parents wish,
they may contact the School Board and ask for
permission to attend the other, or closer school.
IF the merger goes through.
Public Meetings November 2nd in Fairfax November 3rd in Fletcher both at 6:30pm
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: ohhman on October 27, 2011, 01:12:04 PM
Mirjo &7F24- kudos to you & roadkill ( it takes a real good person to own up to an opinion & apologize because of it due to real legit gripes he has!). So, what people need to know is there may not be a separate bus vote! Just like many that didn't get info on school changes with saying no to past issues (full Kinder) & vote to pass everything....vote NO to the merger, doesn't seem to help Fairfax much @ all (& YES I was @ the last meeting) & then call & voice opinion on KEEPING our buses but better yet, like roadkill says; WRITE your opinion ! Attend the next merger meeting! There were so many responses for questions asked by they didn't know the answer! The committee states there are no real benefits in the findings so, like an ol' timer might say, "Don't fix what ain't broken"!
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: mkr on October 27, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
I also attended the meeting as you know, for the merger. I would encourage anyone who wants to ask questions to attend the meetings.
I also want to point out this is a committee to research the merger, not create policy, which they in turn responded in that fashion when asked questions. The questions they didn't know answers to were way out of their hands.
"Well what will our taxes be after year 5?" How would they know or do we know today what our taxes will be 5 years without the merger.
"What would be the reason the board would let my child go to elementary school in Fletcher instead of Fairfax or vice versa" This was an example of a POSSIBLE option if the merger goes thru, they are not the School Board that would be elected to make those decisions.
I applaud these volunteers who took the time to do the research and provide the information for both towns. They gave out possibilities as to benefits and what this could do for Fairfax and Fletcher. They are there to help inform you of the merger so you can make your decision. Some just don't want anything to change unless it benefits them greatly, I am sad about this....
My opinion, the Fletcher students, 95% currently, when they arrive in 7th grade are now BFA's students. A merger would bring the 6th grade to BFA fairfax, approximately 20 kids. It would allow the schools to share resources, and would give BFA Fairfax a stable number for the budget instead of the ever changing tuition. School Tax incentives for the merger, first 4 years I believe, I would have to look back on the info. Also, it would give the Fletcher School the ability to not have students in trailers for class.
I don't care if you live in Fairfax or Fletcher, shouldn't it be what is best for the kids and really not impacting us financially any different as a Fairfax resident. Having NO children, and pay thru the nose in taxes, I am in favor of this as it truly is a smart decision.
Don't Fix what's broken, well Fletcher is broken, as a Fairfax/Fletcher community that joins together as their student become 7th graders, why be selfish of adding one classroom of kids..... I did not remember the commitee saying there were no benefits? I believe that was your opinion....
Please read more details in my responses after the last meeting http://www.vtgrandpa.com/forum/index.php?topic=12697.msg33272#msg33272 (http://www.vtgrandpa.com/forum/index.php?topic=12697.msg33272#msg33272)
As for the buses, this is NOT about them for this vote and was a separate discussion before the merger and I am sure after as well. How do you know there will not be a separate bus vote? Was that stated in the School Board in a meeting and I missed it in the notes?
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: swilliam on October 27, 2011, 02:42:35 PM
Well said Mary Kay.........thank you.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: rod anode on October 27, 2011, 02:59:24 PM
i think fletcher town should merg with fairfax then we can get our garbage removed as well ,oh axe the school owned buses
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: ohhman on October 28, 2011, 01:06:21 PM
I also thank the committee for their time spent on researching the possible merger. In the Fairfax News is where I read, & did not write it correctly- sorry-, that the committee did not find any earth shaking savings. It is my opinion, & I thought that's what this forum is partly for- to express our opinion, after hearing from many on this issue of a possible merger, that it is not such a great idea. I also heard it on the news a few weeks back & it was stated if it went through, it'd be one of the 1st in our state. Though we don't know what taxes will be in any future years, if we keep adding kids from surrounding schools, one thing is for certain, we will run out of space & there will be a need to expand. I just think, my opinion, too many unknowns do not make for a wise decision to change the way things are. I see many people on fixed/low incomes that just struggle to survive every day & certainly would not want to add further burden to them. I agree MKR, people need to attend the meetings; thats what they hold them for, & its very unfortunate more do not go. Mergers are NOT always in the best interest for those involved; just ask about merging custodial issues of the 3 schools. I am sorry Fletcher residents struggle, but so do many Fairfax residents. And as for a separate bus vote; that won't happen, it will just happen: as did the custodian issue & even just as a few years back when we lost our own lunch program & that was contracted out - we lost & continue to lose good people due to the changes; never again in our hands & always at the mercy of what/who we contract with. I stand by my own opinion, keep our buses & lets wait on the merger idea!
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: roadkill on October 28, 2011, 08:10:44 PM
Thank you 3plusK, I get so wound up at some of these issues because I was there, Scott was there, Bill was there, Michelle was there, Sue was there but we arn't anymore. This thread was about busses, not the merger and I respect what trussel had to say and the little knowledge I have of him, I respect his thought out opinions and wish he would run for the school board. Im interested in knowing his findings but how deep can he really go or information can he get in an organization that says basically its really vermont maple syrup when its actually from new jersey. When the school consolidated everything with the Supervisory i.e. building and grounds, bookeepers, human resourses, curriculam coordinators and so on it didnt work that great at the start and the answer to me was give it time, Oh yeah, Mary Baker too, she left, she took care of managing everyones pay, vacation time, sick time etc... Every other week on my pay stub there was never a problem in 10 years. accurate as accurate can get. Its not they way anymore, the central office is questioning people in june about 4 hours you took off in november. This system is still broke or should i say that the staff is not receiving the same excellent service it had, paid for by the taxpayers, before the consolidation. 1 maintenance supervisor for 3 schools is not working. Fairfax and Fletcher in a merge will pay approximately 70 percent of this persons salary. Georgia the other 30.Are you getting what you pay for? What happens when Fairfax and Fletcher in regards to maintenance and custodians? This is huge people. Maintainig your core plant and grounds is as much important as teaching a child to read. Where I work now I have a Director who manages 6 schools. It CAN work but you must have hard working dedicated knowledgeable employees who are taken care of, and most of all Respected. To do that you need Supervisors and Administrators who lead by example and have the ability to hold someone accountable rather than one that has compromised their position of authority and integrity and is forced to turn their heads and look the other way.People that will act on something immediately rather than wait for someone tto complain in WRITING. Do your jobs, BE THE BAD GUY, thats what you get paid to do, not shift the blame. I am 100% in favor of keeping the busses and even making it larger if need be to support the system. They just need to put some management checks and balances in place. As far as the merger, I need to go to the meeting and ask some questions. You can only squuze so much juice out of an orange and with everything going on and systems still broken you either need better oranges or more oranges. Last but not least Henry if you read this please remove me as a member with the ability to post on this web-site, Ill send you a separate e mail. Ive said what I said, going to take splotts advice and move on. If Ive burned any bridges so be it AT LEAST I DID IT IN WRITING>
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: sdogallen on October 28, 2011, 09:13:17 PM
Very well put Roadkill. I am the Scott that Gary is speaking of and I totally and 110% stand behind what he is saying. We have worked there and we have seen what goes on AND what not goes on behind the scenes. I am also working at a place where no matter who you are or what position you hold you are held accountable for your actions. You are expected to do a job and do it to the best of your ability. The people that are in the highest positions there are highly respected because they treat every employee equal and don't look down on you. It all makes for a great place to work. I don't live in Fairfax but if I did I sure would be raising a stink knowing what goes on. I enjoyed my 11 yrs. of working at BFA. Met and worked with a lot of great people and the kids were and still are top notch. With that being said I too will request that Henry take my ability to post any OPINIONS away. Thank you very much!
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Henry on October 29, 2011, 01:59:12 AM
I don't see any reason to remove either of you, so am leaving you on
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: mkr on October 29, 2011, 01:19:44 PM
I am also in favor of keeping our buses and drivers. Merger or no merger. That is a separate issue. Growing up taking the bus to school, vocational, band, and for sports; our bus drivers were always there supporting us and making a long ride fun when needed and getting us home safely. I thank them for their committment to the kids.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: JLB on October 30, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
I vote to keep the buses.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: slpott on October 30, 2011, 06:33:50 PM
I have spoken to a lot of people, teachers and children and we ABSOLUTELY need to keep our buses. The drivers know our kids. The drivers are willing to make neccessary accomodations for the kids. They offer to take the community to playoff games as far as Barrre. The pro's are endless. Not to mention if we needed to evacuate Fairfax, we have the means. The bus issue goes beyond picking up and taking home kids. This can not happen. This is a very very bad idea for Fairfax. Maybe a good idea in bigger cities but not here. I hope people do their research before they vote and remember it is not always just about the mighty dollar. In this case it is about the kids and the community. I vote NO and would even protest this one. \
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: rod anode on October 31, 2011, 03:30:56 AM
if every bodys for it then who started this campain????????????
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: ohhman on October 31, 2011, 12:52:59 PM
maybe "the suits" that were mentioned?
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Chris Santee on October 31, 2011, 01:11:18 PM
from post #11 page 1:
By State Law, the School Board is required to explore consolidation in many areas including transportation.
Title: Re: So Tell Me - Did I Miss Something???
Post by: Thor on October 31, 2011, 06:55:01 PM
So, using the reasonable man theory.... one could say that the criteria has been met. Other options have been thought of, explored, researched and released to the public for consideration. No further action is required of the school board. We keep our buses and our drivers.